tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1674709389503889160.post3777902338396390173..comments2024-03-25T14:25:25.102+00:00Comments on Poetry as Socio-proctology: Roots of Gandhi's Charismawindwheelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18099651877551933295noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1674709389503889160.post-75339358376023523682013-06-09T12:29:30.195+01:002013-06-09T12:29:30.195+01:00Thank you- very illuminating. What you say explain...Thank you- very illuminating. What you say explains the attitude of the European disciples like Mirabehn (Madeline Slade) about whom Sudhir Kakar wrote a book recently. Indian philosophies/soteriologies had a 'field theory' rather than notion of participation or methexis and karma ended up doing all the work to yield a benevolent outcome...Perhaps, in Western Philosophy the problem of how one thing acts upon another is more acute or carries a sort of anxious valency- the feeling of being cut off from God, or the Ideal, even without any overt sin...I am struggling to think whether we have it in India in any other form than the Theistic Bhakti/viyogini- i.e. trope of separation from the Beloved (i.e. God)..<br />Gokhale's Servants of India Soc. had been compared to a sort of Jesuit Mission.. Gandhi's ashram was more loosey-goosey..but the latter had the advantage of giving access to the Jail cell...<br />Sorry, just thinking aloud... Actually, the more I look at it, the more I find in your comment. I can now see how an honest person can be a Gandhian. I guess kenneth Boulding was of that sort. I'll need to mull this over a lot more. Thanks again. Very generous of you to take the trouble.<br />I thinkwindwheelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18099651877551933295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1674709389503889160.post-2207583761609571782013-06-09T11:38:40.565+01:002013-06-09T11:38:40.565+01:00I think the notion of Charisma is intimately conne...I think the notion of Charisma is intimately connected with the philosophical problem of chorismos- i.e. the gulf between the ideal and the actual. The charismatic person is considered as the ideal type and gets to decide how close any given actual being is to the ideal and what duties are incumbent on that agent if he wishes to keep his grade or hope to advance forward. <br />True, there could be a revolution as when Zeus supplanted Chronos. Suppose there is a genealogy of chairs which start off as humble kitchen stools but evolve into something so beautiful and comfortable that they oust the 'ideal chair' which is the throne.<br />This may seem a strange way to think about ideals but it has one benefit- it gets round the 'third man' Argument of Aristotle. If this chair is related to the ideal chair then there must be a third chair which encodes that relationship. If I say, this chair participates in the ideal chair, you may say 'Chairs don't participate in anything- they are just chairs. Or else, please show me a chair which when you look at it you can truthfully say 'this chair shows the participation of that other chair in the ideal.'<br />In the case of Gandhi- you may feel he was not principled or virtuous and perhaps you may even think you have some evidence which proves it. Still, a lot of people believed he was the most principled and virtuous person of his time. Since they too wished to be virtuous and principle, they invested him with Charisma and by accepting his judgement as to their rank and duties as soldiers of Truth (Satyagrahis)they got round the problem of 'chorismos' which is the feeling of being wholly cut off from knowledge of the ideal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1674709389503889160.post-61870850334602337182013-06-08T18:29:22.827+01:002013-06-08T18:29:22.827+01:00I see. So living the life of the poor means going ...I see. So living the life of the poor means going to London to see the King. Come to think of it, the poor people of Champaran tried to see the King when he came on a hunting expedition. They were chased away and their petition was rejected. So, desire to see the King and petition him is what poor people want. No wonder Gandhi went to see the King. But, pussycat pussycat what did you do there? Did Gandhi say to the King- please help us. We are poor. We need food. We need medicine.'<br />No. He saw some political mouse under some chair and forgot all about the poor people of Champaran or Bardoli or Wardha or, in fact, any part of India.<br />We may say, dignity of India, Indian national pride forbids us asking for food or medicine. But, in that case, to help the poor, why not change your nationality- Gandhi could have pretended to be Zulu- and ask the King Emperor to help his poor Indian subjects without Indian pride being damaged in any way. <br />Now you may say- 'Poor of India considered Gandhi their one true treasure. He could not become a Zulu, even to help the poor of India.'<br />My reply is- 'in that case why couldn't he just become for one moment a smart Gujerati bania who strikes a clever deal which gets the poor the resources they need?'<br />You may reply- 'Banias are the ones who sucked the blood of the poor in the first place! Leopard can't change his spots.'<br />I would disagree. If the bania takes off his banyan and appears bear chested he can become a Mahatma. Other lawyers may not have known this trick, but once Gandhi showed the way they quickly adopted it.<br />Did Gandhigiri raise up the poor by even one iota?<br />No.<br />Bania can take off his banyan but the leopard inside him can't change his kleshas.windwheelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18099651877551933295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1674709389503889160.post-81334130506725100792013-06-08T17:51:13.117+01:002013-06-08T17:51:13.117+01:00One hundred years ago only a small minority of Ind...One hundred years ago only a small minority of Indians were educated. Few Hindus or Muslims had a proper grasp of their Religion or proper inculcation in the Indian Culture. Instead they were subject to hunger and disease and exploited and abused at every turn.<br />Gandhiji stands out as a man who turned his back on the elite life-style and high politics to live the life of the poor. Not only that, but the greatest men and women of India came to recognize that he had taken the right path. Even the British King received the Mahatma in his Royal Court even though Bapuji was wearing only the loincloth and shawl of the poor peasant.<br />That is the root of his 'charisma'. <br />He was the initiator and others followed his footsteps. That is why he is the Father of the Nation and also why people from all over the world can take inspiration from him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com